[00:00:00] He was using God the same way that his patients used him. How many people are incongruent with, they like want people to stick with them and they wanna increase their PBA and they want to increase their office numbers and they wanna increase their retention, decrease their churn, but they're not even sold out about the thing that they do.

[00:00:15] How could they expect the people they take care of? If you could have come in on day one, and I promise you that you would do this again, if I said you had to write me a check today in order to get the result, what would direct check that? We don't talk to them. We don't interact with them. We don't have conversations with them.

[00:00:30] Welcome back to another episode of the Profitable Chiro Network. I'm so excited for this episode because we're gonna do something totally different today. Heather is actually going to interview me. 

[00:00:40] Dun dun dun, which 

[00:00:41] is gonna be awesome. So. If you are curious maybe about who I am the way I think, um, or you just want to level up your game, we're gonna talk about my struggles, we're gonna talk about my challenges.

[00:00:53] I actually don't even know half the questions that Heather's gonna ask me and what she has prepped. Uh, but the cool part is, is like these [00:01:00] questions are going to allow you to grow your business and grow your impact and grow your life. And that's what we're so stoked about. Um, and that's ultimately what we want to see for everybody, regardless of who you are, where you're at and where you're listening from.

[00:01:12] So, Heather. Without further ado. 

[00:01:15] All right, so the first question I have is what parts of your personality did you have to crucify to become the man who runs the businesses that you run? 

[00:01:27] Uh, this is a great question. I talked about it in another episode, but I think that I was raised on a lot of pride and a lot of ego, and I think that.

[00:01:40] It was all self-protective and I was kind of raised to be self protected. So, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing necessarily, but the family that I came from, especially on my dad's side, there was lots of addiction. And so we were raised that we don't talk to them, we don't interact with them, we don't have conversations with them.

[00:01:55] If we're gonna go to. Thanksgiving, it's like in and out as fast as we can go. [00:02:00] So this showed up all these places in my life where, you know, even taking care of clients in our office, I'd be like, oh, I don't want to take care of them. Or like, we don't see people who are like that, or people who don't eat clean and like, there's just this, all this judgment, all these places where I thought I was better than everyone else.

[00:02:14] Um, because that's kind of the way I was raised. And so the biggest thing. That's had to be crucified within me is this idea that I'm better than anyone, or I know more than anyone, or our techniques are better than anyone. And so a lot of times you'll hear me say things now like. Not good, bad, right or wrong, it's just different because it's me acknowledging that a lot of what I can say, because I'm so opinionated and so extreme comes off in a certain way, I really don't mean it that way.

[00:02:43] Um, and it really comes down to, we talked about this yesterday as a team and our, like our team meeting in the morning before shift was that it really just comes down to loving people. And I think that's what mostly has had to die in me is this. This thought [00:03:00] process that I couldn't love or shouldn't love anybody else because I'm so much better than them and it just had to completely go away.

[00:03:09] So how do you like approach that on a day-to-day basis? 

[00:03:13] Um, I think mostly it's awareness and I want to, I'm kind of putting this framework together right now because what I'm realizing is there's really four steps to. Having any kind of change inside of your life, but I think the first piece of it, not to share the whole frame framework is just being aware.

[00:03:30] So for the longest time, I mean for my whole life, I'm 40 now, but for 39 and a half years. I don't even know that I had an awareness that I was like that. And so the first step for anybody is, and you know, you hear this with like addiction and mental health too, is like a first step is admitting that you have a problem.

[00:03:49] Right? 

[00:03:49] Which, that's kind of true. 

[00:03:51] Mm-hmm. 

[00:03:51] Like that's a tried and true framework to just realize that Oh. If I don't even have an awareness of what's going on, then I have no chance of [00:04:00] fixing it. Um, and you could apply that principle to business as well. Like if you're struggling and you don't know why your finances the way they are, or why your collections aren't enough, or why people drop out at a certain visit, like if you can't answer those questions, then likely it's just a lack of awareness because if you had awareness of it, you would be able to fix it.

[00:04:16] Hmm. 

[00:04:16] And so for me, the first step was just doing a ton of work. Uh, Joshua's breaking free program is what I always talk about is. And realizing that there were a lot of generational strongholds that had been, I had caught not been taught necessarily. And we talk about hidden curriculum and implicit learning that I needed to act a certain way in terms in order to protect myself and protect myself from people.

[00:04:43] And then that just showed up. I mean, literally everywhere with my friendships and as far back as I look, I can always see it until I started to become aware of them and started to actively. Break those off and choose differently on a day-to-day basis. And so, you know, like to answer your question, [00:05:00] every day when I wake up, I, I would lie to you if I said like, I don't still have thoughts that like, oh, I'm better than this person or this thing, or whatever it is.

[00:05:10] But it's like, no, no, no. All you can do is love 'em. Mm-hmm. And it's kind of the Jesus on the cross moment of. Father forgive them. They know not what they do. Hmm. And just this radical like forgiveness and love and just appreciation for all people and who they are and where they come from. Because they all have their stuff.

[00:05:26] We all have our stuff. You have your stuff just like I did. And that's, I think part of what life is actually about is not building big business, but starting to like break down those barriers and break down those walls so we can become more of who God called us to be. 

[00:05:41] Do you feel like it's challenging every day to do that?

[00:05:43] Yeah. It's super hard. There are a lot of days when I'm like, I just want to not love on people and let me just like be by myself and not talk to anyone. 

[00:05:52] Like that entitlement kind of thing. Mm-hmm. 

[00:05:55] So, yeah, it's a battle every day. 

[00:05:56] Mm-hmm. 

[00:05:57] But the cool part is you have a choice, [00:06:00] so I could either choose. Go back to where I was before.

[00:06:04] Um, I got interviewed on a podcast yesterday and I'm so excited for that episode to come out because some of the questions he asked me, get me to that place of like, well, where did this come from and why do you think it was that way? Mm-hmm. And like some of the darkness before we got married. And yeah, I mean, it's an every day, I don't wanna say a struggle, but it's active every single day.

[00:06:23] It's just like going to the gym. 

[00:06:24] Yeah. 

[00:06:25] Like I don't think there's anybody who wakes up excited to go to the gym every day. Even for me, like as much as I love surfing this morning, I didn't particularly want to go surfing, but I did. And then I'm like so glad that I did. 'cause I got my body moving. It woke me up, I got to be in the water and it was a great way to start the day.

[00:06:42] Mm-hmm. So same is true on this like identity personality front as well? Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:48] Yeah, I like that. Do you feel like you're still healing from anything right now? Like. If you, if you do, like, how does that show up in your leadership for the family and for the [00:07:00] team and for clients and things like that? 

[00:07:02] Yeah.

[00:07:02] I think that the, the place of healing would be like giving people more grace and not being frustrated. So like, simple example, yesterday, uh, we had a client who like I was for sure was gonna continue care and who did not. For their own reasons, which I like, understand all of them. But before I would've been completely pissed of like, you're just like, you don't even get it and you're so dumb.

[00:07:27] And why would you not do that? You've had these amazing results and then you're just gonna stop. But realizing that like the wild card in all of business, I think is just people. Hmm. And so the only thing to do is just love people for the decisions that they make. And I've had to make some of those same decisions in other aspects.

[00:07:44] And so it's like. What can I, what more could you do? Well, it doesn't even make sense to be frustrated about it because then I just carry that to you, or I carry that to Danielle or to Wes or Nade or the rest of the team, George, right? And it doesn't make sense to carry those things. So [00:08:00] I think again, that like day-to-day basis of just like love people for who they are, love people for where they're at and.

[00:08:08] Like, do your best to be, just be a model of how life could be and how people, and like help people grow. Mm-hmm. 

[00:08:16] Regardless 

[00:08:16] of whether they choose in or choose out. 

[00:08:18] Yeah. I mean, I think that says a lot too in regards to like for raising cocoa. Like if she sees your frustration in that, like she's going to think that that's what's the norm and what.

[00:08:29] You should kind of do, yeah. If somebody, if somebody makes a decision that's not like what you would want for them. 

[00:08:36] Yeah. Well, and it, you know, like you bring up cocoa, which is a really good point because cocoa, what's interesting is like, you know that we eat a certain way and we're even of the people who say that they eat clean, like.

[00:08:49] We're just more extreme. More extreme 

[00:08:51] in all aspects. 

[00:08:52] So like, you know, cocoa goes to ballet, she's the only ballet camp, she's the only one who brings their own snacks like everybody else is eating, like whatever. And so [00:09:00] not that that's good, bad, right or wrong, but I feel like we've had to, as a parent, be very intentional about making sure that.

[00:09:07] Cocoa. It's not a bad thing that people choose to eat X, Y, Z, or to do those things, but it's not what we do and here's the reason why. And if they do, it's not necessarily bad, it's just a different decision. 

[00:09:19] Right. Every family has their own rules. You 

[00:09:22] will get to grow up and you will get to make your own decisions one day.

[00:09:25] Um, but realizing that like the magnificence that God put within us. Well, I love reading Daniel so much in the Bible because there's so like, yes, there's the Lions den and there's Shadrach, me, Shaq, AB Bendigo. But there's also this like very, I think, important lesson about what we put into our bodies.

[00:09:44] Mm-hmm. And everybody's heard like, your body is a temple, but I. I think it's so special and magical because what, what I've come to realize is like the reason that some of that stuff is in the Bible is because there's this innate understanding that like God gave us [00:10:00] literal magnificence within our systems.

[00:10:01] Right? 

[00:10:02] And I get to share that principle with people every day. So it's not, hey, we're better than anybody. It's just like we want to express fully what God gave us. 

[00:10:11] Yeah. 

[00:10:12] And that's, um. Yeah. It's just, it's one of those things to be, again, it comes down to awareness because if I'm not aware that I could potentially being be teaching my daughter that we are better than X, Y, Z because we eat a certain way.

[00:10:28] Sure. Or because we exercise a certain way or we live a certain lifestyle. Like she's gonna walk into the world with the exact same brokenness that I had, right. That I was completely unaware of. Mm-hmm. And so there's this really fine line and care and intentionality to raising her in a world where it's like, Hey, we make certain decisions because of these certain things and it's not good or bad, but we just do it differently and we gotta acknowledge where everybody's at in their journey.

[00:10:56] Yeah. And hopefully we can just be an example. And I see that all the time, like. [00:11:00] You know, my brother's asked me before, like, Hey, what do you do? 

[00:11:02] Like, 

[00:11:02] what do you guys do when this happens with Coco and like parenting? 

[00:11:05] Mm-hmm. 

[00:11:06] And the reason that some people, a lot of times they'll ask those questions because they see that there's stuff that's different.

[00:11:14] Like, oh, she rarely ever gets quote unquote sick. Yeah. But we don't even use the word getting sick in her household. So that's a, you know, there's all these things. So anyway. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:11:22] So good. Okay, so, um, you've kind of touched on this before in past episodes, and you've brought a little bit into it already today, but like, what's one lie that you used to believe about yourself that still tries to like, creep in when you start to get like stressed or feel under pressure 

[00:11:44] every day?

[00:11:45] A hundred percent. Without a doubt, you're not good enough. You're not good enough to do that. Who are you to think that you could teach people about business or your business isn't far enough [00:12:00] or you're not good enough as a chi, like just you're not good enough? Plain out. Plain and simple. And it shows up everywhere.

[00:12:05] It shows up in surfing, it shows up in business. It shows up in personal life. It shows up as a dad. Um, and yeah, I mean, there's a real battle every day to. Fight that mentality. 

[00:12:19] You feel like when you're in a good headspace and aware of it, it's still like a struggle. 

[00:12:24] Yeah. I think that the it on a better headspace day, it's more of a, the thought will be there, but it's like, no, that's not true.

[00:12:34] Mm-hmm. Versus on a bad day, it's. A process to walk yourself through to be like, okay, what's the actual reality? Or like, what's God say? And it's so easy for people, uh, myself included, to just get knocked off of like, what does God say? 

[00:12:51] Right? Right. What 

[00:12:52] does God say? And you can get words from everywhere that you're on the right track.

[00:12:55] And still the enemy's gonna try to get you to believe the one lie. [00:13:00] That just completely breaks you and so you never do anything that would actually be in line with your highest calling that God gave you in the first place. 

[00:13:08] Do you think that everybody has like one lie that has been instilled in them that just continually creeps back in?

[00:13:15] Mm-hmm. I think so. 

[00:13:17] For sure. And like how does somebody that maybe doesn't understand how to become aware of that, like how do they figure out what that. Why is, 

[00:13:28] I mean, I think that like Jamie Winship does a really good job with his model of just, and he has full prayers that go with it. So if you're interested, uh, his book is Living Fearless.

[00:13:38] His book is amazing. Um. Uh, I think it might lack a little bit of detail, but it's a really good starting point for people. That's a 

[00:13:44] guided journal with it too, I think. Yeah. So 

[00:13:46] buying the guided, and I haven't done the guided journal. Mm-hmm. So I don't know, but I think that Jamie's line of questioning is really good because it goes like this, it's a prayer, and it's just say, it's just the first thing that you do is tell God the truth.

[00:13:59] And [00:14:00] so in prayer out loud, you tell God the truth. I'm literally going to say, God, here are all the things that I believe to be true right now. That I'm not good enough, that my business is failing. Mm-hmm. That I suck. That I don't think you could actually provide the things and the visions and the dreams that you've given me 

[00:14:17] mm-hmm.

[00:14:17] Already. Or the things that have pop, like I just don't. And so, you know, for me, those, that reality would be like, there's a part of me that doesn't trust that you could deliver on those things. And it starts with just being completely raw and vulnerable. And the cool part is God already knows what you think anyway.

[00:14:33] So regardless of 

[00:14:34] He already knows you're second guessing him. 

[00:14:36] Yeah. So whether you say it out loud or you don't. Yeah. He already knows, so you might as well say it out loud. So that's a first step is just acknowledging like, Hey, here's all the places where I don't trust you. Mm-hmm. Or where I'm doubtful, or I'm fearful, or I'm scared.

[00:14:48] What are your biggest fears and worries? I'm worried that my business is gonna fail. I'm worried that Heather's gonna leave me. I'm worried that Coco's not gonna think I'm a good dad. I'm worried that Danielle thinks I suck as a business owner. Like I could just run down the list of all the things of like, [00:15:00] here's the stuff that I'm, and I'm just giving it to him and saying like, Hey, here's where I'm at.

[00:15:04] Because the cool part is, is just like with anybody, if I share with you, Hey, here's all the places where I feel like I suck, the likelihood that you're gonna have more trust in me and like have a better relationship with me is way higher. Mm-hmm. Because it's all, it's. Once you have that place of vulnerability, it opens up a conversation, a deeper conversation.

[00:15:23] So the same is true with God because it's just like a dad who's like, well, if I didn't know my kid felt this way, then I had no opportunity to help them, 

[00:15:30] right? 

[00:15:30] Because they never ask me for help. And so that's the first step is saying, Hey, here's where I'm at. Here's where I'm fearful. Here's where I'm worried.

[00:15:37] Here's where I'm scared. Here's where I don't trust. Here's where I doubt, here's where I'm ungrateful, whatever it is. And then. Asking God the very specific question of God, what do you say about me? And just listening and like I can even feel it right now, is that getting that answer will for sure bring you to tears.

[00:15:58] And it's probably gonna be one word, [00:16:00] one or two words. Um, and it's so simple. And then it's like once you hear it, you just know and you. Then it's a reminder every day of like, oh, hey, this is what God said about me. This is what God said about me and you. What's interesting is the opposite is like, so for me when I did this, and I've done it multiple times and other, I've even had other people, like I had a client do it for me, um, who's so crazy because she's literally looking at me right there on the, um, client of the month board.

[00:16:29] So anyway. She, so she did this for me and she's like, Hey, I don't know. She's like, I just felt compelled to do it and like pray into this for you. And she's like, here's the words that I got for you. But if I look at the lie that I've been trying to be convinced of for my entire life, you're not good enough.

[00:16:43] And I can go all the way back to when I was a kid. I can remember, right? Having these feelings and these stories and these things that came up, those all were used are like weaponized against me to get me believe that I wasn't good enough. Or I wasn't enough. But if I look at, so [00:17:00] God literally told me, he is like, you are amazing and you are, I brought you here to do great things.

[00:17:04] Mm-hmm. For other people. So if I don't think that I'm good enough, then I'm gonna be like, well, I'm not, I'm not the one to do that. Like somebody else can do that. So it's the exact opposite. You see what I'm saying? Yep. So what I'm fearful of, or what I'm worried or what the lie is usually gonna be the exact opposite of what God says about you.

[00:17:23] Right. 

[00:17:23] And just ask him. And he will for sure answer and it's the most amazing thing ever. Okay. Did that answer your question? 

[00:17:33] Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:17:33] Cool. 

[00:17:34] Do you have any questions that you're like still afraid to ask God, like in your prayers? 'cause you, you either know what he's gonna say or you are like nervous about what he would say or want for you.

[00:17:50] Um. No, I don't. I think sometimes my fear in asking God things are that I'm like too [00:18:00] transactional. 

[00:18:01] Oh, like, 

[00:18:02] like, God, I just want this house, or I for this, or pay for this. I want this bank account, or I want this car. Like whatever stupid stuff, because then all that becomes the idol. So it's like, yeah, it's not that it's bad to ask for those things, but I think more of my fear.

[00:18:14] Isn't the questions and getting like an answer that I don't want to hear, because a lot of times I, and this is the thing with everybody, like everybody knows what they should do. I was talk, I talked about this yesterday on a podcast. Um, literally everybody know, already knows what they should be doing.

[00:18:30] Everyone. It's just a matter of whether you're doing it. So like God's already giving you the hints and giving you the blueprint and giving you the next thing that you should be doing. And a lot of times we just don't do it. Like we're not obedient. Mm-hmm. And. I think that for me, more of it, what I get more nervous about is making sure that I don't fall into the trap of just transactionally having that relationship.

[00:18:54] And the way, I can't remember if I shared this before, but I, I was on a coaching call with a guy I, [00:19:00] who's struggling with some stuff, and his biggest thing was like, I. He was frustrated because his people would come and see him when they had pain, and then they would disappear when they were out of pain.

[00:19:11] Mm-hmm. 

[00:19:12] And he said for the first time after me kind of walking him through some of this process that we're talking about now, is he realized that he was using God the same way that his patients use him in his practice. So when I need something, when things are bad, I go and I pray. Mm. But when things are good, I have no relationship at all.

[00:19:33] And I thought that was, it was like this just special moment where he just sat with it where he was like, Hmm. Yeah. That totally makes sense. So again, and I said this so many times now, I was like, the reflection of what happened spiritually is gonna, what's gonna be happen? What's happening in the physical as well.

[00:19:48] Right. 

[00:19:49] And so, um, I don't know that I even answered the question. So it's not so much that I'm afraid to ask for, ask certain things mm-hmm. Or get the answers to certain things, but more of it's [00:20:00] my worry and fear. I'm gonna slip into a very transactional relationship, which is not, in my opinion, healthy.

[00:20:09] Yeah, that makes sense. I think there are a lot of people that are scared to ask God though, wouldn't you agree? 

[00:20:17] Yeah. Because if you know, like if you're told. By God and you definitively know it's God that you should go do this thing. 

[00:20:25] Yeah, 

[00:20:26] that sounds scary. Yeah, 

[00:20:27] totally. Or 

[00:20:28] you should fire this employee or hire that person.

[00:20:31] Mm-hmm. Or make this business decision, or do this thing with your spouse or book this vacation. Like there's a million different things that could come up, but a lot of them require a level of testing. Mm-hmm. And a level of like, you just have to put your trust in God that he will provide. Bridge even when you can't see that the bridge is there.

[00:20:54] Right. It's always like just outside your comfort zone. Mm-hmm. Making that sense. And it has 

[00:20:57] to be, 'cause that's how we grow. That's the only [00:21:00] way that we grow. 

[00:21:00] Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:01] And so it's always, I have fear and then I'm just gonna put my trust in him and I'm gonna surrender. And hopefully it all works out. But it always does.

[00:21:09] Literally always. And then that's what builds faith. 

[00:21:12] Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:13] So trust is like the key. Mm-hmm. The trust, the surrender, the, I give it all up. Yeah. 

[00:21:19] Yeah. Which is hard to do. 

[00:21:20] Yeah. For everyone. 

[00:21:22] Yeah, totally. Okay. Um, so what fear do you still battle today, even though you coach others through it, that's kind of like similar to probably what you've been sharing already.

[00:21:34] Yeah. Would you say? 

[00:21:35] Um, I would say that my biggest fear is that like none of it's gonna work out, you know? Like I still, even when I first started practice, I can remember waking up in the mornings and being like, everybody's gonna cancel today. Danielle's gonna say that there's nobody on the schedule.

[00:21:57] Everybody canceled. And then like, we're just gonna have to shut down. [00:22:00] Um, and I think the same thing is true sometimes on the coaching side as well, where I'm just like, is this even what I'm supposed to be doing? Like, it feel, it doesn't feel like I know what the heck I'm doing, um, even though I fully do.

[00:22:15] Even though the people that have coached have gotten amazing results. So there's always, to me been this level of battle with like, is it all just gonna crash tomorrow? 

[00:22:25] Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:25] And then if it does, what's everybody gonna think? They're gonna find out that I was an idiot and I didn't really know anything in the first place.

[00:22:31] Which goes back to the lie that I've been trying to be convinced of, is like, you're not good enough. 

[00:22:37] Right? 

[00:22:37] Like, you're not good enough to do any of that, so why even try? Yeah. It's gonna fail anyway, so why even try? 

[00:22:41] Yeah.

[00:22:45] What you said. Hmm. Say say more. I feel like you have thoughts. No, I don't. Okay. 

[00:22:52] All right. Um, who do you have to become in private to keep showing up in public the way that you do? Because you just kind of talked a little bit [00:23:00] about like, well, what's everybody gonna think? 

[00:23:01] Yeah. I think the, you have to become in private.

[00:23:04] Um, the person who just genuinely is obedient and will do. Whatever is asked of you, I, yeah, like a full surrender. And so what's cool is the ultimate form of congruency would be to just like, everything that you do all the time is the exact same. So it doesn't matter if you're in public, it doesn't matter if you're in private.

[00:23:29] So in private, I think if you have a strong relationship with God and a strong trust in him, and you can talk to him, um, in an authentic way. You're gonna see that pour over into what you do in public as well. Mm-hmm. And I think people can feel it, whether they, like, they can call it whatever they want, but there's a level of genuine authenticity.

[00:23:52] Uh, there's a level of like, Hey, I know who I am. And a lot of times I think it shows up like [00:24:00] that person just genuinely doesn't care what anybody else thinks. Mm-hmm. 'cause I know what God thinks. That's where I feel like for me, the next evolution would be is really getting to that point where it's like I know what God thinks and know what he says.

[00:24:14] Sometimes I still don't trust him, but every day in private, I'm trying to just build that trust and build that relationship and build that willingness to just do whatever I'm told to do unapologetically. Then that shows up where people are like, Hey, how did you do this? Or How did this thing, and like, like, I mean, even to Jake, uh, was messaging me today, and he's like, dude, the coolest thing I've seen is like, you have one person who runs your entire office and the one person is Danielle.

[00:24:46] Mm-hmm. And he's just mind blown by, he's like, I have a, like six people, uh, tell a lot of 

[00:24:51] offices run and I'm with a lot of people. 

[00:24:52] And like, he was just, he's like, it could be so much easier. It's way too complex. 

[00:24:58] Right. 

[00:24:59] So. [00:25:00] And I don't know, it was just cool. It was a cool thing. Right. But it's like in private, I've had to work to the place where I could just trust her to like take all of it, have financial conversations, make financial decisions, do what you think is best for the business.

[00:25:16] Mm-hmm. And like, I'm not saying I'm perfect, but not be as micromanaging definitely as I was three years ago. You know. Yeah. So, but it's like, but that's, that's the thing is like that in private. What did I have to do? I had to just surrender it all. Right. Be like, God, this is yours. If you wanna close this down tomorrow, close it down.

[00:25:35] Right. 

[00:25:36] I don't care, God, if you wanna take away all the people and have me do something completely different and go work at the grocery store, like what I don't like, I care, but I'll just do it. 

[00:25:45] Yeah. Like your trust in him allowed you to trust her more. Mm-hmm. Fully. 

[00:25:50] And the whole team. That's why I can say Wes just posts.

[00:25:52] Podcast. 

[00:25:53] Yeah. 

[00:25:53] Post short. I don't even check. That's what's so cool. I've heard other people say it, but I realize, like I don't vet any [00:26:00] of the content that goes out onto our pages. I can give feedback after, but I've never told someone pull something down. Uh, and like it's just, it's a. It's a level of freedom that I literally never thought was possible.

[00:26:12] Mm-hmm. Because I would then I would be pissed because I'm like, oh my gosh, she needs me to edit this email. He needs me to look at all these things. I don't have time to do any of it, nor do I even wanna do any of it. 

[00:26:20] Right. 

[00:26:21] Like, I just wanna sit here and hit record and talk, and then they make it look cool and they do all the cool stuff and I get to watch it and enjoy it later on the back end.

[00:26:29] So that's a level of I like once I trusted in him mm-hmm. And I had faith that he would just deliver. This awesome team. Wes shows up. George shows up. Danielle's been here from when it was a train wreck and been through it all. 

[00:26:43] She's been through the good and bad and the ugly. It's 

[00:26:45] been, yeah, I mean it's, it's so special, but I think that's God, and that's what he's been providing is like, Hey, awesome.

[00:26:50] When you trust me, you can trust people around you more. 

[00:26:53] Well then it allows you to do more of what you're focused on and supposed to be doing. 

[00:26:58] Yep. Because he's [00:27:00] like, I have a calling for you. 

[00:27:01] Mm-hmm. 

[00:27:02] But 

[00:27:02] that's different than West. That's different than Danielle. Yeah. That's different than me. 

[00:27:06] Exactly.

[00:27:07] Mm-hmm. Yeah. Cool. Yeah, it's super cool. 

[00:27:10] Mm-hmm. Do you think that a lot of the times with people, like the way they show up in public versus private is not congruent because they care more about what other people think than what God thinks of them? Or like. Because I know for a fact that, I mean, at one point we were probably that way as well when we were younger.

[00:27:37] 'cause a lot of people tend to be like much younger. You care more about like how people perceive you versus, um, how God perceives you or like you're not the same person in front of other people as you are when you're at home in your private life with family and stuff like that. Like how does, how does that work?

[00:27:55] Um, I think that most people think that they need to [00:28:00] be a certain way outwardly, that's not who they would really be if they could just genuinely be whoever they wanna be. Does that make sense? 

[00:28:08] Yeah. 

[00:28:09] So, a, and I used to be like this too, where I would act a certain way because I thought that's what people wanted.

[00:28:17] Mm-hmm. Right? So, man, I could go back to like the very, very beginning when we were taking care of all the guys in Warrior. They were upstairs and like I was just trying to be who I thought they would think was cool, not who I genuinely was. 

[00:28:34] Mm-hmm. 

[00:28:36] Um, and I think that they could probably tell, and it's a growth process.

[00:28:40] So again, not trying to, like, it was a season of life where I had to learn a lot of things. So I think those seasons are special and I would never discredit them or take away from them, but. At some point, I just realized that I can't continue like this, or one I'll burn out, and two, everybody's gonna know.

[00:28:59] Mm-hmm. [00:29:00] 

[00:29:00] And people would just pick up on like, he just, there's something not right. Seems phony. 

[00:29:06] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And 

[00:29:07] now this is what I get. Now, there's no way somebody could be that happy. Like I've literally had clients say there's no, there's something wrong with him because he's that happy. And what's cool is Mark who interviewed me yesterday.

[00:29:19] He said the same thing. He was like, people all the time are just like, dude, there's gotta be something wrong with this guy. Like, he can't be like that way at home, but it's just, and then they re, they like, the more they spin around, they're like, oh no, that's for real. 

[00:29:31] Yeah. 

[00:29:31] You know? Yeah. Versus the opposite where they're like, mm, there's something just not right and then it's like, oh, I knew it.

[00:29:38] They're different. 

[00:29:40] So, so, so like anybody that's just starting out in practice or like a new grad or students of a. Any sort for any, um, any market? Like what would you say to them in regards to like the public versus private stuff? 

[00:29:57] I would just say who, [00:30:00] if there's a disconnect between who you are in public and who you're in private, like that's a problem.

[00:30:05] And the best example I could give if you disagree. With me on that is someone as intelligent as Brene Brown, who's done a ton of work on vulnerability. Um, and her book, dare to Lead, she talks about core values. 

[00:30:17] Mm-hmm. 

[00:30:17] And a lot of a place where I see a lot of businesses fail is they have core values that are different in their business than they do in their personal lives.

[00:30:25] So like the business owners have these core values as their family. But then the business core values are different. 

[00:30:31] Hmm. 

[00:30:31] And what she makes the argument of in there is that there are only two, like you have two core values that should be for your business and for your personal and for everything else in your life.

[00:30:42] And there should only be two. And if you have more than two, then you need to refine it more and actually figure it out, which I think is cool. So we have five in our practice and home life, they're exactly the same. Right. Um, but if we had to boil them down, and I think we've had this conversation before, it would be vitality and value creation.

[00:30:59] Mm-hmm. 

[00:30:59] [00:31:00] So the reason I bring that concept up is because if a, a really cool way and a way to identify is whether you're actually congruent or not is what you say you stand for in your business core values. And if you don't have core values in your business, you need to get them. 

[00:31:16] Yeah. 

[00:31:17] But more importantly, you need to get the ones for your personal life.

[00:31:19] Right. 'cause they pour over. 

[00:31:21] And they, it allow, like there's so many cool things about core values. One is they allow you to make decisions. So I can literally look and go, oh, they invited us to come and do this event at whatever. Mm-hmm. And they want, or they want us to sponsor it or whatever. So then we can look and be like, all right, well, are they serving alcohol or are they, whatever it is, and we can make a decision.

[00:31:40] Is that incongruency with vitalism? 

[00:31:42] Right? 

[00:31:43] With the body's self-healing, self-regulating, melt, self-maintaining. And is that congruent with value creation? Is it going to leave the world better than what we found it? 

[00:31:52] Yeah. 

[00:31:53] Um, and an event centered around drinking, in my humble opinion, is not leaving the world better than what we found it.

[00:31:58] Mm-hmm. It's leaving people sicker, more [00:32:00] broken, et cetera. 

[00:32:00] Mm-hmm. 

[00:32:01] So, like, the reason that I think core values are important is because if you're brand new in practice. Or you're, maybe you're not even in practice yet, but you're a doc and you're trying to figure it out. When you can settle on, like, here's what I stand for as a person and that will not, I will not compromise those inside of my business, then you're gonna start to just show up the same no matter where you go.

[00:32:25] Right? 

[00:32:26] And I think that's just a crucial component of. Figuring out like who you actually are. And there should be a conversation of like, God, what do you say? Mm. Because a lot of times we're told things, right? Like I was told my entire life that you're not good enough, or even more So. What's so interesting is I had this thing of like, you're not good enough, but I also felt like I was better than everybody.

[00:32:49] Yeah. That's like, uh, what's that called? 

[00:32:54] It's just contradictory. 

[00:32:55] I couldn't think of the word. Yeah. 

[00:32:56] Yeah. So it's funny. [00:33:00] But that's the protective mechanism. I needed to feel like I was more superior than everyone. 

[00:33:06] Hmm. 

[00:33:07] Because that protects my identity. It's like a safety mechanism. And you'll see a lot of people do that.

[00:33:13] Like, you know, you've heard somebody say like the loudest person in the room is the weakest person in the room. 

[00:33:18] Yeah. 

[00:33:19] It's. They're, uh, like it's an overcompensation for protection. Mm-hmm. And when I say protection, I mean just like identity protection because we are designed to not have our identity threatened because we want to fit in.

[00:33:32] Yeah. 

[00:33:32] And the way that some people fit in is to be super loud and obnoxious and almost to the point of arrogance. Mm-hmm. The way that other people fit in is to think that they're better than everybody and then they show up and they have this like idea of perfection that they just carry with them everywhere.

[00:33:46] Used to be me. Mm-hmm. Um. And so the real, that's the real work is just identifying where am who am I in public? Mm-hmm. And who am I in private and just not [00:34:00] compromising on the two. And it's really just like, what it comes down to is just standards. It's like these are the standards that I set for myself.

[00:34:05] Yeah. 

[00:34:06] And I won't compromise for though, and I'm not gonna compromise for those in the people that I take care of. 

[00:34:09] And don't you think too, like, um, no matter who you are and what you do, like if you. Aren't the same person in private and in public, like what you're trying to create as far as like a business will never grow and thrive the way it really could or should.

[00:34:27] Yeah, for sure. So, I, I, I can give a good example of this. So like, in the past, the people pleasing version of me would have been very, um, very. Slow to have certain conversations in the office. One of those about God, one of them praying with people. Mm-hmm. But one happened yesterday that I just thought of.

[00:34:47] So the whole weekend when we were in Alabama for the 4th of July. 

[00:34:54] Mm-hmm. 

[00:34:54] Like I had not a couple non-alcoholic drinks, but a lot of it, I mean, I [00:35:00] had one beer, I think two maybe the whole time. 

[00:35:03] Oh, like a regular one. 

[00:35:05] And I was talking to somebody who was, we were talking about drinking and they were talking about how they'd stopped since they'd stopped drinking.

[00:35:10] They felt so much better and not been inflamed and all this stuff. And so it brought up this whole conversation where I was talking about some of our family members. 'cause you're like, why is everybody grumpy and so tired? And everybody's moving slow? And I'm like, on the 

[00:35:20] second day, they're all 

[00:35:21] ripped the day before.

[00:35:23] Yeah. Like they were drinking all day long. Right. So. I would've never, because there were other people in the office who I know drink a lot. And I was just having this conversation openly with someone where whoever I was talking to, they were like, yeah, drinking's like kind of stupid. And I'm over it and it's a different part of my life right now.

[00:35:38] And we were talking about one of his friends who we also take care of and he's like, man, I wish we could just get him to switch. And I was like, dude, all we can do is just keep showing up the way that we do. 

[00:35:46] Mm-hmm. 

[00:35:47] So in the past, I would've never had that conversation 'cause I was afraid I would've offended.

[00:35:52] Other people who are sitting in here 

[00:35:54] or like, what would they think of you when having that conversation? 

[00:35:56] Yep. And like full disclosure, I'll have an espresso [00:36:00] martini at dinner. Mm-hmm. So like, I'm not saying I, but way beyond the point of drinking to even like, feel a buzz at this point in my life. Sure. So.

[00:36:07] The, but the couple that was in here, they for sure drank quite a bit in the past. I would've been nervous that I was gonna offend them and not have the conversation and shut it down. But I was just open. And then, this is the coolest part of it, that one of the co, one of the people in that couple was listening to the conversation.

[00:36:23] Um, because we do all open adjusting. Yeah. And when they laid down to get adjusted, she was like, yeah, I'm just really, like, I didn't drink hardly at all this weekend. And I felt so good, so much better. And it was an affirmation of like, us just being who we are mm-hmm. And who we've grown into, not because we're better than anyone or Sure.

[00:36:40] And like, it's not a judgmental thing, it's just like, Hey, here's who we are and here's what we're gonna talk about. Like, that inspired them to even acknowledge that like, yeah, you know what, you're actually right. Even though I live this lifestyle and that's how we're just like shining light for more people to just express life the way they should.

[00:36:58] Because you're authentically who you are. Mm-hmm. [00:37:00] Both in the office and out. 

[00:37:01] Yep. Exactly. And so it just, it just reflects and like pours over into everything else. 

[00:37:07] Yeah. 

[00:37:07] So the starting point, if you're new is getting the core values and your business should not be different. If they're different, you need to readjust.

[00:37:16] Because they should be the same. 

[00:37:17] Mm-hmm. Okay. So talking about like having conversations in the office, do you feel like there's a part of is said, the question specifically says, what part of your message do you hold sometimes Hold back on and why? I think I hold back because I feel like your message is changing.

[00:37:37] Yeah, it is changing. I think that the part I probably hold back on more than I should is that, uh. Like God made us perfectly. 

[00:37:46] Mm-hmm. 

[00:37:47] And this goes back to when I was teaching too. One, the reason I got into teaching is because I realized like everybody has the same potential to be successful. So then [00:38:00] we can kind of transfer that instead of, if we say take out the word successful, we can say everybody has the same potential to be healthy.

[00:38:06] Hmm. 

[00:38:07] And we've seen this play out in the practice. Like I had a conversation with a mom yesterday whose daughter has had tons of seizures, and again, her daughter's 30 plus days. Mom's like I lost track of counting of how like the days in a row that she hasn't had seizures. And this is not the first time this has happened.

[00:38:23] It's happened for hundreds of days in the past. So it's super cool story. But the reason I bring that up is because I think I get wrapped up in talking about like, well, you're not broken, and the brain and the nervous system. But not reminding people of the potential that they have with within themselves and the potential that God gave them.

[00:38:41] And I would say the other place that's missing for sure, I was thinking about this morning when I'm surfing, is that like this should, like chiropractic should be a lifestyle or a part of a lifestyle. 

[00:38:56] Just like working out. 

[00:38:57] Not just a thing that you do until you get better, but yeah, [00:39:00] it should just be a thing that you do like.

[00:39:02] If you're gonna go all in on, Lord, you go to church every Sunday if you're going to stay fit and healthy and keep your body moving. We have people who are literally 80 years old who we take care of, who are golfing and working out multiple days a week. And they also come in and get adjusted multiple days a week because they realize that having a healthy brain is a part of their healthy lifestyle.

[00:39:21] Mm-hmm. 

[00:39:22] And I think I miss that part a lot with people where I'm like, Hey, let's just get you awesome results. Hope that they stick around, but them not understanding that like, no, this is a, like, this should be a lifetime thing and be unapologetic about that because it is for me, and even like, I had a guy, um, online, he made this comment, he was like, who pays that much for chiropractic care a month?

[00:39:43] And I was like, you wouldn't pay it. And he couldn't even answer the question. And so it's like, how many people are incongruent with, they like want people to stick with them and they wanna increase their PBA and they want to increase their office numbers and they want to increase their retention and decrease their churn.

[00:39:57] But they're not even sold out about the [00:40:00] thing that they do. How could they expect the people they take care of to be? 

[00:40:05] That's mind boggling to me. 

[00:40:07] I know. It's insane. I'm like, are you kidding? Me and I, we will sit and have conversations like NAR is one of my favorite stories where I don't think I've ever shared this publicly before.

[00:40:18] Um, so, uh, can I just share it real quick? 

[00:40:20] Yeah. 

[00:40:21] So there's this kid or kid guy we took care of. Um, his name is Renar and Nar. I hope you hear this, dude, you're, I miss you. Um, so NAR came in, he had this ice skating accident and he was like a pretty high level ice skater. So he had an accident, he fell, he hurt his back.

[00:40:37] He'd never been able to ice skate. They told him he wouldn't skate again, and that was one of his goals. So when he came in, his goal, he's like, I wanna get back to skating, but some other stuff too. And pretty quickly he starts getting awesome results. He goes back to his hometown and he puts on skates, and he skates again.

[00:40:51] And they told him he would never do it again because of his back stuff. So because I had a relationship with him, I said, Hey, if you could have come in on day one, and I [00:41:00] promised you that you would do this again. What would, what would you, if I said, you had to write me a check today mm-hmm. In order to get the result, what would you write the check for?

[00:41:06] And he was like, unquestionable $25,000. And I'm like, if we charge a fraction of that, you know what I mean? Yeah. So like this guy who said, I can't believe anybody would pay that a month for chiropractic care. It's like you don't value your body as much as you should. 

[00:41:25] Hmm. 

[00:41:26] It's like your connection to God, to connection, to enjoying living a fruitful life.

[00:41:31] And for some reason I'm not great at sharing that message of like, this should be a lifetime thing. 

[00:41:40] Right? 

[00:41:42] And anybody who has the argument or the objection that like, well, you just want us to come forever. And that's a good business model, is like your pharmaceutical company wants you to take your blood pressure meds forever and your pain meds forever, and your cholesterol meds forever, and your Advil forever, and get your vaccines forever.

[00:41:56] So like you choose which model you wanna live in. 

[00:41:59] Mm-hmm. [00:42:00] 

[00:42:00] But. This is a lifestyle and I've literally seen it time and time and time and time again. Parents ask, how is Coco so healthy? How is she reading so much? How is she doing that thing? Why is she so focused? How does she pay so much attention? People who are older, golfing, the best games that they've ever played in their lives.

[00:42:15] Mm-hmm. At their oldest age ever. I had no idea that my ED would go away. I had no idea that I could feel good at this age. I had no idea that my body was able to do this again. But it's because nobody else is preaching that message. It should be a lifestyle. Lifestyle thing. Mm-hmm. Lifetime thing. 

[00:42:29] Do you have any thoughts on why you're holding back with that?

[00:42:32] Um, uh, one, I don't think, I just think that it's been something that's been missed. Like I've just full on, missed the boat on doing it. Um, I think I get wrapped up so much in like, I'll just do a good job and then they'll just commit forever. 

[00:42:44] Sure. 

[00:42:45] And so, um, yeah, that's a part of it. And then it's a hard conversation to have because so many people are posted like, well, I don't wanna be in a thing that I have to do forever.

[00:42:53] I don't wanna sign up for a long-term contract. 

[00:42:55] Mm-hmm. Even though everyone signs up for things [00:43:00] long term. Mm-hmm. 

[00:43:01] You signed up for a Netflix contract 

[00:43:03] gym membership. And so you cancel it like there's 

[00:43:05] no like year to year or six months to six months. Your Hulu contract, your Spotify contract, your dude, there's membership's so much your gym membership, like all of it.

[00:43:16] Um, and that what's so cool is like what I think is interesting and what I love and I think one of the things that I pride just our team on and what we're really good at is like. If you commit to being here, we're going to hold you accountable to being here. Yeah. The gym's not doing that. They don't care.

[00:43:32] That's how they can charge 20 bucks a month. 'cause they're gonna charge a bunch of people 20 bucks a month and hope that they never show up, which most people won't. 

[00:43:39] Right. 'cause then they won't remember to have to Yeah. Cancel and so they'll just keep getting their money. 

[00:43:44] But we're going to hold you accountable to being here.

[00:43:46] Why? Because one of our core values in the office is value creation. Mm-hmm. We want to leave every single place better than what we found it. Every person, every place. Everything. Mm-hmm. Better than what we found it. If you interact with us, I guarantee you, you [00:44:00] will leave better than what we found you.

[00:44:02] Mm-hmm. 

[00:44:03] Guaranteed. You have to. 'cause we have an amazing team. 

[00:44:08] We do. 

[00:44:09] Yeah. All right. I'm done. I'm off my soapbox. 

[00:44:12] You're good. 

[00:44:12] Such a good question. 

[00:44:15] Um, have you ever had a moment where you thought you misunderstood your calling? 

[00:44:21] Yeah, like multiple times. 

[00:44:22] Yeah. 

[00:44:23] I thought I was called to be the assistant manager at the oil change shop.

[00:44:26] I thought I was called to be a teacher. 

[00:44:27] Well, did you really think you were called to be the mm-hmm. 

[00:44:30] I thought that was it. I was so good at it, and it was so fun. What's funny is part of that was like it was sales. 

[00:44:39] Yeah. 

[00:44:39] You know? Yeah. But what was, what was great is that I could just be honest with people like, Hey, you need a new air filter today.

[00:44:46] If you didn't wanna do it, you can go buy one at AutoZone. They're this much money, it's gonna be a little bit cheaper, but you gotta do it yourself. I can show you how to do it if you want to, or you could just bring it back and I'll do it for you. And a lot of times people would be like, nah, you can just do it.

[00:44:56] I'll just pay the extra money. Like there were all these places that I learned just how to be [00:45:00] honest and authentic and open with people. Um, and I built more trust doing it, and it, it was awesome. So then like, but that was short-lived. Mm-hmm. Then teaching was short-lived like six years. And then I'm noticing like we're approaching seven and a half years in practice and I'm noticing this like, change again.

[00:45:19] Yeah. 

[00:45:19] And there's seems to be this like cycle in my life. 

[00:45:22] Mm-hmm. 

[00:45:22] Um, where I don't know. That I'm misinterpreting the calling. I think it's just the next level. 

[00:45:30] Right. 

[00:45:30] And that's what I'm trying to be obedient to, just 

[00:45:32] being patient for it. Instead of just 

[00:45:33] being like, I'm bored, I wanna change 'cause I'm not bored.

[00:45:36] Like I love adjusting, but I also don't know what it looks like to free up more time and have someone else adjust and have like roles just shifted and a bigger team and all this stuff. Mm-hmm. So, 

[00:45:48] yeah. Okay. 

[00:45:50] That answer the question, 

[00:45:51] I mean, yeah. Uh, who are you becoming that your bank account can't measure?[00:46:00] 

[00:46:00] Who am I personally becoming? 

[00:46:02] Yeah. 

[00:46:05] Um, I said it in the beginning. It's probably a good way to wrap it up is like, I think just someone who cares about people like full on just cares about people. Mm-hmm. And yeah, there's no amount of bank account that could ever measure that. 'cause relationships are more important ultimately.

[00:46:25] Right. 

[00:46:26] So that's where I just want, yeah. I literally, on a day-to-day basis, I just want people to know that we care. And that's what I've been pouring into the team is like, let's just pour out love on everybody who comes in and I guarantee they'll have life-changing results. 

[00:46:39] Mm-hmm. 

[00:46:40] And it's not, it's from chiropractic, but it's not just from the chiropractic.

[00:46:44] Right. 

[00:46:45] Because there's a level of care. And like being in the presence is what changes people 

[00:46:52] for sure. Yeah. They're not getting it out there in the real world as consistently. 

[00:46:56] Yeah. And you just know, and then you're like, I like being around this person. Mm-hmm. [00:47:00] Like, I like being around Wes and Danielle because they freaking care about stuff.

[00:47:05] Mm-hmm. 

[00:47:06] Like they just care where you can tell people who don't care and are transactional and whatever. And so that's what it, to me, that's kind of what it always goes back to is just like your. How much you care, how much you love. I mean, a good example of this is like, think about, so we were away this weekend.

[00:47:22] Mm-hmm. And this guy literally doesn't charge anything to use his home, which is insane. 

[00:47:29] So, so cool. 'cause I'm, dude, you could 

[00:47:31] charge 2,500 bucks a night. Like easy for this place. 

[00:47:33] Oh yeah. That's on the low end. 

[00:47:35] Um, and he's like, use my boat, use my life jackets, use my pantries, use my bar, use my jet 

[00:47:41] skis arcade game.

[00:47:43] Pickleball courts like, 

[00:47:44] like just the ne the whole neighborhood. Like that's the coolest thing ever is, uh, there were random people at the Pickleball court. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, oh, should they have been there? And they're like, yeah. He just tells the neighborhood, like, anybody can come use their professional pickle pickleball court anytime.

[00:47:56] Mm-hmm. They can just show up and use it. So like that's, [00:48:00] he just cares about people. 

[00:48:01] Mm-hmm. 

[00:48:02] And so this thing that could be a money maker for him, he's like, I don't even want, he tried it and he's like, I don't even wanna rent it out. I just want my friends to be able to use it. Yeah. And I want to just bless other people.

[00:48:11] Yeah. 

[00:48:11] And I think that's. I won't say that's the whole purpose to life, but a part of it is huge. Part is just seeing other people win, seeing other people thrive. 

[00:48:19] Yeah. 

[00:48:20] So, yeah, for me, I would say the number one thing for me is just loving on other people regardless of who they are, where they come from.

[00:48:29] Even when it's hard. 

[00:48:31] Yeah, sure. If you liked this episode or any of the other past episodes, be sure to like it, subscribe, share with a friend. This is how we get, um, the podcast out with more people. 

[00:48:43] We love you fam. Peace.