Why Almost ALL Pain Is Self Inflicted (And How to Break Free) w/ Mark Manderson (Pacific Shores)

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Transcript

[00:00:00] She was lying on the ground pills everywhere. I, I can still feel the crunch underneath my feet as I'm walking towards her. I just remember shaking her and intuitively knowing something was different, but it was kinda like she's asleep, she's not waking up. If I was better at this, I could have reached them differently.

[00:00:13] I could have done more, I could have sold the car. To bring more people over. And for the longest time, like I made it about me. Yep. But I took it on as kind of guilt and shame and not good enough. Mm-hmm. As opposed to, God, please continue to cultivate me how you want. But knowing that even if I mess up, even if I can't help another person, as long as I live, it's job well done.

[00:00:37] I didn't have purpose out of college. I actually became incredibly depressed. I was clinically depressed and then actually, uh, became suicidal. 

[00:00:47] What's up fam? Welcome back. I am your host, Dr. Daniel. I'm here with a new friend, uh, but an amazing friend. Dude, we connected. It's so cool. Uh, we'll probably share some of the story.

[00:00:56] Um, this is my man, Mark Anderson. He owns [00:01:00] Pacific Shores Recovery, um, up in Costa Mesa, right? 

[00:01:03] Newport, Newport, Newport Beach. 

[00:01:04] I knew I would get it wrong. Same thing. Um. All blends together for me when you're in South County. Yeah. And I had somebody gimme a hard time about it yesterday, but anyway, uh, mark, welcome.

[00:01:14] We're so far north. I know. It's forever. Thank you for having me, man. This 

[00:01:18] is awesome. 

[00:01:19] That's why you text me and you're like, Hey dude, it's gonna be like 35 minutes. It's just, it's seems like a drive 'cause we're used to our bubble. So anyway, um, so grateful that you're here. So, so grateful, and I don't really know where it's gonna go.

[00:01:30] I just wanted to have you on one because you, we were talking about it before is like you're just a man of knowledge and you have a unique gift in the short time that we have known each other to be able to break down very. Complex ideas and complex things into like simple step-by-step frameworks. And I've seen you do it time and time again.

[00:01:48] You did it when I was on your podcast a couple weeks ago, uh, which just came out this week. So go check it out. And yeah, dude, I just wanna like, let's start with you just sharing your story of like, how'd you get here, share a little bit about how we met, whatever, and [00:02:00] then we'll kind of jump into the fun growth stuff.

[00:02:01] Yeah. Thank you man. Uh, born and raised in Newport Beach, so really, really lucky. Uh, had no idea what I wanted to do. I was a terrible employee growing up, to give you an idea. Um, so my parents were serial entrepreneurs, started gyms, different things like senior daughter running around, takes me back to my childhood.

[00:02:18] Yep. My parents started, uh, several gyms called shape Makers. So I grew up from my earliest memories running around open gyms as they're doing all the construction and just a different way of, of life. The, the babysit, the babysitter was the iron, you know what I mean? Um, and so. Uh, just kind of going through school, not knowing what I wanted to do as an athlete for the majority of of my life.

[00:02:39] Uh, never the best at anything, but, uh, always tried to learn and to grow and outside of college, didn't know what I wanted to do, so I figured, well, let's travel. So, ended up getting opportunity to move overseas and went over to England, went out to Cambridge, did some schooling there, and then traveled all over and went, gosh, this is really cool.

[00:02:59] Yep. [00:03:00] Um, ended up going back home. Still didn't know what I wanted to do when I grew up, so I said, well, I love traveling and no matter what you do, you're doing business. So there's this major back then, I don't even know if it's still a thing, but called international business. And so I'm like, oh, this is cool.

[00:03:13] So did Semester at Sea and was able to do some amazing experiences. As a student, I was actually, I was just talking with someone the other day. They were asking about some of the travel stories. I'm like, oh, well, all right. I'll name drop a little bit. But like I met Fidel Castro and partied at his compound, and they're like.

[00:03:31] Wait, what? I'm like it was 2000. It was through semester C, but just the opportunities that you get from traveling. 'cause like you said, the bubble. Yep. Born and raised in the Orange County bubble. Yep. Like, I had no idea. I recently had a friend that moved out to Tennessee and got like, I think 70 something acres of land and I had to ask him, go, what's an acre?

[00:03:48] I'm from Orange County. I don't know if that is, 

[00:03:50] we know by square feet. Yeah. 

[00:03:52] And so, uh, so it just, it really helped. Open, open my eyes to, there's a whole other world outside of what I knew. Yeah. And so I [00:04:00] questioned everything of like, I was born and raised Christian, um, family, started different church plants and different things like that.

[00:04:06] And always knew that I was Christian, but I had some people in my life that said, would you be Christian if you were born and raised in India? Yeah. And raised Hindu. And I'm like. Oh, I've never questioned my, my belief, my religion, my stories, and so as I started to, it just kind of took me on this wild journey of ups and downs and all arounds, and then eventually kind of stumbled my way into what I've been doing.

[00:04:31] Now we just hit. 25 years. That's amazing. Uh, in the mental health and addiction, uh, realm of just wanting to help individuals and families heal from addictions and, and brain imbalances and all sorts of things. And one of the things that we kind of connected on was, yeah, was, oh man. When your brain's balanced, you tend to feel better, you make better decisions when it's not.

[00:04:50] You make poor decisions. What if, uh, a lot of us are focused on the wrong thing and if we just look at the brain and some of the things that we can do to change that life gets so dang [00:05:00] good. Yep, for sure. So kind of, kind of the 

[00:05:02] CliffNotes version. So cool. You have so many cool stories that I would, I would love to bring up, but I'll save them.

[00:05:06] But, um, you do have a book called The Recovery Way. I do. Right? Uh, how long ago was that release? Uh, I think 2022. Yeah. 

[00:05:14] I dunno, it's been a few years. 

[00:05:16] So, and in it you have a protocol or kind of like a framework, right? Yeah. For a step by step. Do you mind sharing that for people? 'cause I think that gets into a little bit of like, it doesn't.

[00:05:24] Everybody thinks about the brain and they think it has to be complex and it has to be difficult. And it's something I'm passionate about where I let people know, like, listen, most of your struggles just come down to stress and how your body is processing or dealing with stress. Mm-hmm. And so that's what we work with people on.

[00:05:37] But for you guys, you have a little bit of a different process. We're coming at it from a couple different angles, but I love your approach and your step by step. So can you just kinda walk people who are listening who may not have heard of it, uh, or read your book before of like, what's that process, if you don't mind laying that out for us.

[00:05:51] Yeah. 

[00:05:51] So, well, one of the things was. So none of this is like my, my work, right? It's so funny when people are like, oh, I created this. I'm like, I don't think we have original anything anymore, for sure. [00:06:00] Because, uh, human beings have been around so often, it's just trying to find things and put it in a palable way that we can actually break down and then apply.

[00:06:08] Yep. So, and I remember for a long time it was like, oh, it's education. Education. It's not an education issue anymore. You can find the information anywhere. It's application and execution. And so maybe about 12. 12 to 15 years ago, like we'd have people come through our center, have the same therapists, the same case managers, interact with the same staff, be in the same groups, and then a year later we'd follow up and we'd see one person completely change their life flourishing.

[00:06:34] You know, the white picket fence, the family, the dog, the 2.5 children, which I don't know how you get 0.5. Yeah, yeah. But, and so I'd see this and it was wonderful. And then I'd follow up with another person that came through with the exact same everything. And then they're struggling to still live in the exact same way.

[00:06:50] And so what I started to do was just look for, for patterns and after, after I don't know how many thousands of people coming through the program and looking, we finally figured it out and said. [00:07:00] These people over here are doing a certain set of daily disciplines. Yep. Daily habits, rituals, whatever you want to call it.

[00:07:07] And these either are doing maybe in one area, but struggling in other areas or neglecting all five of them. Yeah. And so I, I call 'em the five foundational freedoms and it's in no particular order. I just have it memorized this way. So first thing we started seeing is those flourishing were doing something in fitness and health every single day.

[00:07:24] Yep. So they were moving their body Well, the science is, is when you start sweating and moving, releases different chemicals. Yes. Dopamine, serotonin, you start feel better. When you feel better, you make better decisions. So there's the science back behind it, but we just notice. And why I love framework. It wasn't like, oh, CrossFit or Die or Yoga Only or different, different things.

[00:07:43] It was whatever season of life you're in, as long as you are moving your body, yeah, you're doing something. You're getting the scientific part of the brain, but also it just, you feel good. So I get lost in the science and the studies. I just say, what is the outcome? Like, how do I feel when I do this? Well, you feel better.

[00:07:58] I'm in. Yep. So that was the [00:08:00] fitness part. The next part was the faith. The people that were over here, um, had some form of maybe less selfish, so thought of them selfless. Um, they would commune with their creators, what I call it, where the people that were struggling, they were the center of their universe.

[00:08:17] It was me, me, me all the time. Yeah. Which I know that gets me in trouble sometimes too. And so we started looking at that and thinking, wow. With these people, when they actually sit in either prayer or meditation, basically it's stillness again, science back. Yep. For, for the brain. But. And stillness mixed with this fitness part.

[00:08:34] They started doing better. And then that led to a third pattern that we saw, and that's the third F, which is family and friends. They were investing in cultivating relationships. So yeah. So in the addiction realm, they say addiction's, isolation. So what I've learned to do is you just do the exact opposite.

[00:08:49] So if addiction's isolation, that means recovery's community. Yep. So if we're investing in relationships. And started seeing this and just little one-way transactions, uh, we call 'em MOGs messages of [00:09:00] gratitude. And so it's just letting people that you love what, what you appreciate about them, maybe memories from the past, things that you're looking forward to coming up.

[00:09:07] Yeah. But it's, it's building this bond with those that you love 

[00:09:11] before you, before you go on, I gotta ask. Yeah. Have, have you seen the studies where they take the rats and they put 'em in like the, they give 'em the choice between drugs and then have you seen these uhhuh. You know what I'm talking about?

[00:09:20] Yeah. And so like this, it just highlights it. So utopia. Yeah. You're like literally you see the exact same thing with us. It's so cool. 

[00:09:28] Yeah. Well, and just, just in case someone doesn't know it, what they do is they take rats and either, uh, lace the water with either cocaine or heroin. They found it didn't really matter what drug.

[00:09:36] Yep. And when they put 'em alone, they would continue to use so much until they'd actually die. Yep. And then someone finally said, what if we put him in. A community where they had all the toys and they had wheels and different things, and we still had the water infused with, uh, heroin or cocaine. And what they found is every once in a while, rat would come over, but over time they'd start completely removing themselves from the drugs and just communing together and having fun [00:10:00] and.

[00:10:00] Making rat babies and all the, all the, all the crazy stuff that comes with protopia. That's 

[00:10:04] so, so cool, dude. It's, yeah, it's ama I mean, that's the imp that's the power of relationships. 

[00:10:08] Power of relationships. But also the downside is, oh, we're not much different than rats. That's very interesting. So, uh, so yeah, it, it's investing and that was one thing that was really difficult is.

[00:10:19] For a while, I thought, well, they have to do it back to me, for me to get the benefit. Yeah. We found actually, no, like some relationships, they would continue to, um, start building the trust again. And the other person of fortune had been so hurt and whether they were or weren't doing the work, I would err on the side of they probably weren't doing the work.

[00:10:36] Sure. So they said, I, I don't care. We're done. And the person still continued to thrive. Yeah. Wow. And so the fourth is finances. Uh, we, we gotta make money. Mm-hmm. The barter system's long gone. And so we found that people were investing in themselves. They were actually doing what they love In this day and age with YouTube and now chat, GPT, like we were talking about before, they are able to learn a trade that actually [00:11:00] they love.

[00:11:00] And a lot of times, purpose and passion starts playing a part of that. And so they continue to grow and they're able to provide more value, create more beauty in this world, and charge for it. And so we had those four for a while, but we seem to be missing something. And so as we continue to look. That fifth foundation that all four sit on top of.

[00:11:17] So think of like a triangle. The strongest part is that base. It was feelings. Those that were flourishing and going on, were spending, uh, their days, well, not the whole day, but spending time each day of investing into their emotional state. Yeah. Actually processing emotions differently instead of carrying the guilt, the shame of releasing that and then doing the work around it.

[00:11:37] Asking one of the great questions is, is what I'm feeling? Is this true? And what we find is feelings aren't fact. It's merely data. It's feedback. Yep. And then as we learn to process, we longer take the weight of those emotions, and then you put the other four foundations together. It's just this beautiful, expansive part that the more you do, it gets bigger and bigger.

[00:11:55] And as you get more emotionally mature, you feel better and better. 

[00:11:59] So good. You [00:12:00] guys hear that. Same like literally the exact, this is what we, I talk about so many of my clients and I can't remember how much we talked about this on the podcast when I was on your show, but like one of the things I continually see is that when people don't acknowledge their emotional state, that they're probably unaware of, like that will cause their physical pain and each.

[00:12:21] Each body part is associated. So like low back is associated with support. Shoulders are associated with lack of joy. Neck is associated with lacks of lack of the ability to be flexible towards ideas or situations or people. And the list could go on and on. But it's so interesting that like two completely different worlds in a way, but the exact same principles hold true, which I think is so special.

[00:12:44] And there's something else I thought, uh, was cool, which we talk about a lot with people that we work with. Um, you mentioned. Under the finances about passion and purpose. Mm-hmm. Uh, and I'm curious to know, so like with the people you work with, do you guys have like specific strategies or [00:13:00] specific things in place where you can help people kind of find that passion and purpose?

[00:13:03] 'cause that's a question that I get a lot where I did, you know, a student that I used to teach 15 years ago and she reached out and she's like, I'm just, she's like, I've been through all these jobs. She's like, I'm in the tech industry. I make good money. I'm not happy. Do you have any suggestions? And I'm like, well, you need to find what you're passionate about.

[00:13:19] And I think that's where everybody kind of struggles. And I can remember my dad always telling me like, you're just lucky that you found chiropractor. Like it was just luck. Um, which I don't agree with that necessarily, but I'm curious from your perspective, like what do, what kind of strategies you guys have to help people find that all out?

[00:13:34] Passion, purpose. 

[00:13:35] So I love that you asked this because one of the things, so one of the parts that I, I tend to brush, or not even brush over but forgot to mention was. I didn't have purpose out of college. I actually became incredibly depressed. I was clinically depressed and then actually, uh, became suicidal.

[00:13:51] And so with lack of purpose, there's a lot of internal pain. Yep. And so it's interesting because. I had this belief of [00:14:00] like, you're given one shot. I'm not gonna quote Eminem, but you, you, you know the song. But it's like, okay, so my biggest fear is what if I choose the wrong purpose? Mm-hmm. And so by having that fear, I didn't choose something to do because I was terrified.

[00:14:14] The golden handcuffs, what if I choose the wrong purpose? I get all this way. And then it's like, well, what do I do? 

[00:14:19] Yep. 

[00:14:20] And so that actually created a lot of pain. Something that I started to discover was, I call it a seasonality of purpose. I thought purpose, you got one purpose your whole life. That kept me literally self in prison.

[00:14:31] And once I started to understand there's seasons of purpose just because one person, like we work a lot with military, their purpose, they were an asset for the government and for a lot of 'em it was the most. Crazy, fun, fulfilling times of their life. Yeah. And that was their purpose. Yeah. Well, there is a expiration date for veterans of how long they can be used before they come to the civilians.

[00:14:55] And one of the biggest things that we see, especially, I mean the suicide rate, um, [00:15:00] is crazy with, with veterans, is we see the question is, well, what is my purpose? Well, if you look at, you only got one purpose. It's like, well, you already served it. But when we understand it's a season, so now what does that look like?

[00:15:11] So I wish there was a magical formula, like, well, if you put X and Y, you do this. But here's the metaphor I use a lot of the times. So like in this building, if I were to park behind, I didn't see where you guys were. Yeah. But if I say, well, there's something on the corner, let go check that out. As I start to go to pursue, we'll call it the purpose, I look and say, well, I achieved this purpose.

[00:15:30] This is wonderful. There's a whole other side to this, and there's actually something else over here that. Looks pretty gratifying. I could try this for a while, and then as you start walking that way, you find your new purpose. Now all of a sudden there's another corner, and when you come on the south side, it goes, this was the purpose that maybe I ride into the sunset with Maybe it's 10, 20, 30 years, like I'm in a 25 year purpose.

[00:15:51] I. Don't know if it's what I'm gonna do for the rest of my life. Yeah. If you were to ask me today, BET and wise, well, yeah, I love it. I wake up Monday so fricking pumped, but I don't know. And being open to [00:16:00] that, understanding that, well, it's seasonal. It just, it removes all that self-inflicted pressure of you better find it or else.

[00:16:06] So like that person in tech, well, what do I do? I, well, they're creating so much of this. This, uh, I'll, I'll call it self-imposed trauma. Yeah. E eternally. Absolutely. They don't know. And so there's, we tell ourselves like, there's something wrong with me because I'm not doing this and create the pain as opposed to, and 

[00:16:21] that 

[00:16:21] gets the feelings, right?

[00:16:22] Yeah. Yeah. Well, what do I enjoy this? Well give it a shot. Yeah. It could be a purpose for a season of literally a season, three months, or it could be a couple years. And as you get more skills, a lot of times these skills open up another door that you go, this, this is why I got put on earth. This is why God made 

[00:16:38] me.

[00:16:38] I am all in on this. Yeah. That's so cool. Um, it, it reminds me, I think Gary V's the one who told this story. 'cause one of the, the conversation that I had with my student who reached out, I had a conversation with her on Sunday. Um, but she, her thing, she's like, well, I can't make money doing, like, I can't just switch 'cause I gotta make money.

[00:16:56] Mm-hmm. But the story that she had in her head was like, [00:17:00] it's impossible to be. Profitable and going to do X, Y, Z, whatever it is you wanted to do. But you talked about the stories that we tell ourselves and the feelings that we have, and I'm like, is that true? And I think Gary V used the example, he's like the one dude who had the, the Instagram page that was so passionate about Black Panther, like nobody knew what that comic was.

[00:17:20] But then Marvel came in and they're like, Hey, you have this audience that like nobody else really ever cared about except for this like niche group of people. Let's. Like, can we pay you to market our movie to them? And then this is like, what helped it blow up? And then that guy became a millionaire and he's like, just because he was passionate about the thing that he didn't care if he was gonna make money or not, ended up being super lucrative for him.

[00:17:39] I think it's so interesting how those things work out, as long as it's like, this is just what I'm excited about and I'm gonna just pursue it no matter what. 

[00:17:45] Well, you brought up a good point too. I, I run a small business group, and this actually came up yesterday on our call was 'cause this day and age, everyone's like, oh, burn all the boats.

[00:17:53] Yep. It's like, well what if your family's on the boat? Yeah. When you're young, okay, burn the boats. But as you get older, it's kind of like, oh, that's [00:18:00] right. And so we have this mindset of all or nothing, black and white, as opposed to, this is something I enjoy. I can work on this outside of normal business hours.

[00:18:08] So if I'm working here nine to five, I got five to nine something else. Now if I, I've got family and well, maybe nine to 11. Yep. But it's one of those things of as you start doing this, if it is your purpose and passion, you do it not for the outcome of the payment, but because you love it. If you can get one person to pay you for your service, you continue to build that.

[00:18:25] Yeah. Then you can make the decision once you're making an income, do I want to keep doing what I'm doing to continue paying the bills, or do I enjoy this so much if I'm giving, you know, 20% over here, I have enough now that the family's taken care of, we don't have to burn the boats. 

[00:18:38] Yeah. 

[00:18:39] So yeah, my biggest thing is like.

[00:18:40] Question all these cliches. 'cause a lot of time there's truth to them, but if you question them, we were talking about beliefs and stories. I just cut out all the letters, squish it together. Bs. Yep. It's what we believe. And so if I challenge beliefs and stories, does this serve me? If it does, you go forward.

[00:18:54] If it doesn't, you 

[00:18:54] start doing the work. So good. So good. So from, uh, I mean, dude, you have a cool pass. [00:19:00] Like we got to sit down and have lunch before a couple times now. Um, and there's so much. That you, I feel like you've experienced in life in a good way. I'm curious to know. 'cause we like, there are quite a few in a bad way there.

[00:19:12] Well, yeah. And I'm, but it's all like, it's all learning and growth. Right? So, and we were talking about this before we got on, as you were mentioning growth. So I'm curious to know, like from your perspective with all your world travels, with all the cool stuff you've done, um, like the sponsor surfer story, I always think of that as, it just makes you laugh.

[00:19:28] Oh yeah. 

[00:19:28] Umm not, I'm not asking you, she if you don't want to, but, but I'm more no book, I'm more curious to know like what's, um, 'cause there are quite a few entrepreneurs in like Cairos who are kind of trying to take off and like figure out their thing in business, uh, for this channel specifically. But what's like your biggest business life lesson that you've learned?

[00:19:45] 'cause dude, you have a ton of experience. Like you, I gonna say only one life 

[00:19:48] lesson. I mean, you could 

[00:19:49] share as many as you want, but I'm trying, I just, I would love to just pick your brain more selfishly for me than probably anything to know. Like, here are my biggest lessons or things that I've taken away.

[00:19:57] And I get, you kinda mentioned it a second ago. It was [00:20:00] like, I, I remember being in church and I was kind of, we were worshiping. And God's like, what if you just stop listening to her mosey and like stop listening to Taylor and some of these other guys And he is like, and you just read the Bible and like took those principles from the Bible and then applied them to your business.

[00:20:14] He's like, 'cause it all comes from the same place. Yeah. So, you know, I think the way you said it just kind of reminded me of that moment that I had. And I'm not saying they're wrong, like they're, these guys are super intelligent. Um, and so. I'm curious from your perspective though, like what are those big lessons, big takeaways that you've had?

[00:20:31] So the, the two that come to mind first was I had to debunk, 'cause a lot of people I. Like all the stories that I heard and what I saw is the kids slinging the candy in junior high and high school. Yep. Flipping comic books. My brain doesn't work that way. I was never that. Yeah. So for the longest time it was, you'll always be an employee.

[00:20:49] Well, I stopped at being an employee. I just thought I was lazy. I was told that by a lot of people and the self internal voices as well. So the first thing was is, is that. Entrepreneurs or [00:21:00] business individuals aren't necessarily born every, so here was my, my leveling system. Everybody was born with the same amount of knowledge coming into this world.

[00:21:08] Yep. Nobody was born of like, I know how to do business. Yeah. They were born with zero and then they learn through trial error questions. And nowadays having access to, to YouTube, like you were saying, Hermo. Tailor all these different people. It's like, oh my gosh, I can shorten my learning curve. Yep. But I got stuck in the reading phase for so long of, well, I need to read and get it all perfect before going.

[00:21:29] Yeah. So once I debunk the, you're born not bred and just said, well, I'm gonna figure it out. I just want to serve people. Again, taking, having it be more journey focused as opposed to outcome focused. So that was the first thing. And then really taking, I, I don't wanna make it too simple, but bringing everything in business down, there's three problems to solve, leads, sales, and systems.

[00:21:51] Mm-hmm. Once I was able to look at that and say. Ah, I'm trying to solve all these huge, complex things. Well, starting out, basically it's leads. How do I get people to pay me for [00:22:00] service, product, whatever it is. Yep. You start with one. They don't buy. Find out why you keep going. Lot of numbers. And so as you start learning how to do leads, then it's the sales.

[00:22:10] Well, I got a lot of leads, but I'm not able to let anybody know like, you don't know you need this. Yeah. How do I describe knowing that you need this? And so once you figure that out, then it's systems. It starts with one person. So the, what I see a lot of people do and why I created the business group is we see people get really good at leads, but then not be able to deliver.

[00:22:28] Yep. And so they go, oh, crap. So they run over here and they work on delivery, on the, uh, lacking the systems and then the leads dry up. And so they run back and forth, back and forth. And so that's why by understanding these three systems, you can implement into the lead process, to the sales process, to the delivery process.

[00:22:44] So Good. What's the other one? Well, the, the first one was, was debunking. Oh, just debunking it. All that thought process. Like 

[00:22:50] my negative self-talk, I'm assuming I'm, I'm normal. Um, oh, for sure. Everybody has it, but I'm like, it just kept telling me of like. Your parents are the [00:23:00] entrepreneurs. You are not.

[00:23:01] You're always gonna be. An employee. And so I remember fighting it for a while trying to start things. Mm-hmm. And I'm not a good starter, but what I'm good at is going in and finding out, here's, here's what it is, here's how to make it grow. And it's all through questions. So even in school, I think I shared with, uh, this with you before, was.

[00:23:20] For some reason I was never afraid to ask the dumb questions because I didn't understand it. Yep. And so I remember even in college sitting front row, I'd ask questions and you literally heard behind, oh, oh my gosh, this guy. And I'd ask the question and get an answer. I'm like, okay, that kind of makes sense.

[00:23:35] Well, every once in a while, at least one or two people come up, Hey man, thanks for asking that. I was too scared, but I had the same question. Kinda like, oh, so if I don't. Care if I look like a dum, uh, a dummy or not, well then let's do it. And so just by asking those questions, I started getting a real concrete understanding of what that looked like.

[00:23:53] And then, so that's where by building systems, trial and error, asking questions, and then putting it together, been able to, to grow and scale. 

[00:23:59] So good. [00:24:00] And I think that's one of the gifts that you have too. And you mentioned this when we were at lunch. You were like, I had to like, I had to ask the questions.

[00:24:05] You were like, 'cause I literally, you said it this way is like, I wasn't smart enough. So that's how I could boil everything down to these like really simple things. But I think that's that. I can't remember who said it. I think Einstein is like, if you can't explain it simply, then you don't truly understand it anyway.

[00:24:19] So this is like commitment and level of. What you, what it took for you to like boil things down to very, very simple principles is like a gift that you have. 

[00:24:29] Well, it was, it was painful because I would, I remember I would go to the open office hours in the morning. Yeah. So all the teachers had like half hour in the morning they would teach and then they'd have it in the afternoon.

[00:24:38] So I would go to the open office hours before. Try to figure out this stuff. Go to class, ask the questions, then go again after. So I fought it for a while and then finally just said, well, if it takes me three hours to do something that takes other people 30 minutes or an hour, yeah. What if I just changed the criteria instead of wishing I was that way, accepted that on this way, and so [00:25:00] painful figuring that out.

[00:25:01] But once I did, I'm like, oh, I, okay. I just gotta invest maybe two to three times more in other people to figure it out. But then once I lock it in, it's like. Uh, okay. Game over. Here's the framework. And then yeah, people are like, Hey, I'll pay you for that framework. Like, okay, 

[00:25:15] here you go. So good. This is really cool.

[00:25:16] Yeah. Ah, man, that's so amazing. Um, I wanna back up 'cause I'm curious, I don't think you like fully explain this to me. I want to know how you got into like I, addiction, reh, rehab, recovery, mental health. 

[00:25:29] Okay, so I didn't know this at the time, but I gotta share this because it's a huge part. So there was a part of my life that, like, I, I blanked.

[00:25:38] Yeah. And it was around, uh, eight years old, so I remember. So my parents got divorced at six, so I, I remembered that. Sure. Some of the. Some of the, uh, the ups and downs, but like I blanked this part out and it took a while, but eventually as I started doing some of this work, uh, it turns out I was the one.

[00:25:55] So my aunt was in and out of rehabs. Um, my aunt had a drug problem and she [00:26:00] was the outspoken, like she was a kid at heart. 

[00:26:02] Yep. 

[00:26:02] Like all, all of us kids absolutely loved her. And so she got kicked out of a rehab and actually ended up staying with us. And I had bunk beds in my room, so I remember Aunt Steffi was, was getting to stay with me in my room.

[00:26:14] Yeah. Like I felt like the coolest kid. Um, and so I still can't remember if it was winter or summer, but I remember coming home and she was lying on the ground pills everywhere. I'm sure it's a distorted memory. Like in my memory it was thousands of pills. Like I just. I, I can still feel the crunch underneath my feet as I'm walking towards her.

[00:26:32] Wow. Um, I just remember shaking her and intuitively knowing something was different, but it was kinda like, she's asleep. She's not waking up. So, um, I think my mom was in the backyard. I go and grab my mom. She comes in fortune, revives her. 

[00:26:44] Yep. 

[00:26:45] But when she comes to talks with her, make sure she's okay, but then says, I can't have you stay with us any longer.

[00:26:49] Like we had one rule and you told me it wasn't you, it was the boyfriend. You know, all, all the, the typical excuses. And so ended up, um, she ended up leaving and about I think it was a few months [00:27:00] later, she died one town over of an overdose. Same thing, but no, no one was there to find her. Yeah. Yeah. So at a young age, it planted thankfully of don't try drugs, don't touch any of this stuff.

[00:27:12] Mm-hmm. Because it robbed you of your family. So I think I kind of got this false sense of. Of kind of like, I, I'm untouchable because I'm not doing drugs. Yeah. And I found other ways that were so damaging of stuffing the pain. Yeah. I became a stuffer. I'm not an exploder. I'm a, I'm an imploder I stuff and stuff.

[00:27:30] And then unfortunately, it's never on a random stranger that you'll never see again. It's. Uh, around people that you care most about. Yeah. And you say just some of the most hurtful things. And so it started coming out of, well, you had this really traumatic memory of what you experienced and seeing technically what was a dead person and that you cared about.

[00:27:48] And I thought, oh. I never thought about that. So there's this, I guess, deeply planted seed of, it's a hundred percent avoidable. Mm-hmm. Had we known what to do, [00:28:00] had we known how to love her and meet her where she is, no judgment. Or on the other side of, oh, it was her boyfriend. So she's totally okay. And sit in and have some of those uncomfortable conversations that a lot of people don't know how to have because they walk on eggshells.

[00:28:13] Yeah. That's one of the big parts in early addiction. Um, it, it just kind of sat with me. And so my dad, when I was overseas at Cambridge, started just a, a simple what was gonna be a battered women and children's shelter turned into, um, helping people in sober living. Mm-hmm. And so, uh, that's a whole other story for another time of how that happened.

[00:28:34] So I came back and my dad would ask, do you wanna. Come, come help out. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, I don't want to ever be around like those people. Yep. Like, and, and I had some of these memories and I'm like, I didn't know. Like, heck no. And our band had just gotten signed. We got a record deal. We were, we were playing House of Blues.

[00:28:51] We were open up for, for some of the bigger name bands and just like, I was gonna be a rockstar. 

[00:28:55] Yeah. 

[00:28:55] Like, come on, I'm gonna be a rock star. Um. And, [00:29:00] uh, just life started falling apart in so many different areas. And one thing led to another, and I remember I had a job, uh, I almost doubled the business in less than a year, understanding how to do takeoffs.

[00:29:13] It was, uh, construction, um, for commercial, commercial construction. And so I was able to help teach the guy systems and do stuff just from what I learned in school. Mm-hmm. And reading and just being fascinated. And so I had a great job. Like working three or four hours a day, working out gigging, doing different things.

[00:29:30] And I remember my dad one time, he never said this. He goes, why don't you pray about it? I'm like, okay, dad. Yeah. Like, I'm gonna pray about it. Yeah. Yeah. I remember going home that night, prayed about it, and I don't know how to explain it other than like, this fire in my solo plex, um, just like lit on fire.

[00:29:46] And I remember thinking, I'm like, I think I need to try this. 

[00:29:50] Wow. 

[00:29:50] So I remember going to my boss. Keong. He was amazing. Amazing man. And, and I told him the story and he is like, we will pay you more. I'm like, you already pay me really well. He's like, we'll cut [00:30:00] your hours. I'm like, I'm already not working.

[00:30:01] Like it's nothing to do. I, I feel like high school. It's not you. It's me. Yep. Um, I just said, I, there's, I don't know how to explain it. I'm feeling this in my chest. I gotta go try it. And he said. We will keep a spot open for you. Uh, and I remember when I went ahead and started doing it for the first couple years, it was so difficult 'cause I had zero knowledge.

[00:30:19] But again, I wasn't afraid to ask questions. So I would just go in and ask some of the clients that live their questions, how come you did this? Why did you do this? Well, how come your line about this? No judgment. I just want to better understand what can we do to help more? And so we kind of reverse engineered into.

[00:30:33] Well, what we've been doing now for so long of medical detox, inpatient residential day treatment, outpatient, uh, we have a virtual program that people go to. We've got a family program that we launched several years ago. Ended up writing the book. Uh, I created an app that retrains rewires the brain, uh, for the mental health aspect.

[00:30:51] Just like all these things from asking questions of help me better understand how I can help. So 

[00:30:55] cool. Just the willingness to ask questions. Um, alright, [00:31:00] so you're sharing all this story with me and it is the second time I've heard it. Um, but there are some pieces of it that just give me more clarity. So my question for you, this is gonna be probably a hard question, so like, pause as long as you need to.

[00:31:11] Okay. But lemme get ready. I'm like, I'm so interested. Uh, 'cause it keeps coming up in my life and I don't, I don't think with God there are ever coincidences and it's a great transition to like more of the spiritual piece when. You talk about all this, do you know, or have you ever considered like, this is my God-given identity and like, do you know what that is?

[00:31:35] Or could you define it if I ask you that question? It's like, what's your, what do you feel like your identity that God gave you that will always be the same? Not same as purpose? Yeah. 'cause purpose. You could go anywhere or kind of do anything but like God-given identity. Do you know what it is when I ask you that question?

[00:31:48] Yeah. 

[00:31:49] This is a great question because had you asked me this even just three or four years ago? Yep. I would've answered Yes, it's going out and helping people. Yeah. Um, but it's interesting 'cause it's [00:32:00] changed. So I have a morning routine and, and this is something that, so by studying so many different business people and trying to figure out like mm-hmm.

[00:32:06] What makes them so stinking good. It's daily disciplines, it's habits. Yep. And then it's the consistency. So I say it's not a word, but discipline. Creates consistency. And so the way I do that is I have literally a, a born through fire morning routine. Mm-hmm. That as I started doing it started to open up everything in Faith, obviously is one of those five foundations.

[00:32:28] Yep, yep. Um, I, I actually, I put together a Google document. Do you mind if I. Share that for your people. Now do please. So, uh, you can follow me at Pacific Shores Recovery and just DM me routine and I, I go in depth. I got videos and different things on there. 'cause so many people ask like, how do you go from where you were to where you are and then where you are to where you want to go?

[00:32:46] Yeah. And it's the small daily actions that most people discount. So the reason why I say that is 'cause. I've spent more and more time in faith, to give you an idea, I think three or four years ago, like I was born in, [00:33:00] in the Bible, like churches, all this stuff, and I still didn't understand, like I'd read the Bible, I'm like, when did they add this to the Bible?

[00:33:07] I pulled off the shelf. I'm like, who keeps coming and adding things to the Bible? Just different seasons, right? Yeah. And so I thought. I, I felt it in my heart of, of God saying, I want you to better understand this. So I actually took an online seminary course for a year, a couple years ago. 'cause I just, I wanted to better understand.

[00:33:23] Yeah. And then it was, okay, you're going to, I need you to become ordained. I'm like, ah, I'm not a pastor. I don't wanna open a church. No. Trust me. I go, okay. So I become ordained, become a minister, and then we started doing baptisms at our center and I was the one that started doing that. That's amazing. So we were averaging about three to five a month for several years.

[00:33:43] Yeah. Every single month. It was a month long process. And then we had someone who was way better than me, who we partnered up with, and now we do it offsite, but just by listening to that voice. So the direct answer to your question, my God-given identity, and this was the part that was so difficult 'cause I thought.

[00:33:59] I had to [00:34:00] continue to create and add value and do all this stuff, and now it's to just be me and just continue to seek him. So whether Pacific Shores goes away or I get called somewhere else, still living within my God-given identity, and it is so freeing of just going, God, I'm in the way again. Help me, remove me from this equation.

[00:34:19] How do you want me to show up today? And there's just so much freedom in living that way. Dude, 

[00:34:25] mic drop. It's amazing. Thank you. So much. Um, wow, that's powerful. 

[00:34:34] Well, this day and age, especially in, it's like I love the business stuff, don't get me wrong. You know, me, I, I'm a book a week, a course a month.

[00:34:40] Yeah. Like, I will, I will do that, I think, until I die. But so much of it is how much can you produce production wise, uh, all these things, which is great. That became who I was. Like I, I, I remember if a client left against medical advice or we've had clients that we follow up with years later, they stopped doing the work and [00:35:00] they die of an overdose.

[00:35:01] And I would personally take that on, like, have you ever seen Schindler's List? Yep. So. I remember watching that movie at the end. Yeah. When he, he pulls up and the main guy comes out and they pulled all the gold caps from the teeth, melted it down and gave it to him. Yep. And I just remember him like he's sitting there.

[00:35:19] This still hits so emotional because he goes, I could have done more, I could have sold the car to bring more people over. And for the longest time, like. I made it about me. Yep. And like, man, if I, if I was better at this, I could have reached them differently. And there's some partial truth there, but I took it on as kind of guilt and shame and not good enough.

[00:35:40] Mm-hmm. As opposed to understanding, and this is the big part of faith and going, God, please continue to cultivate me how you want, but knowing that even if I mess up, even if I can't help another person, as long as I live, it's job well done. 

[00:35:56] Mm. 

[00:35:56] I want you to know I support you and continue to [00:36:00] push you to grow, but not because I need you to, because you want to.

[00:36:03] And again, it just, it keeps coming back to freedom. Yep. Being free from all these stories and beliefs of I am what I do, and if that goes away, who am I? 

[00:36:12] Yeah. And the metrics and all the stuff. I had a doc, I had a conversation with a doc this morning, um, who, not like necessarily in a great place. I know him pretty well, but he's kind of struggling and I'm chatting with, and I, I'm like, he's telling me about all the struggles.

[00:36:25] And I'm like, dude, what's God say? And he's like, I don't know. I never ask him. And I'm like, I guarantee you that no matter what, like. Talk to him, but I guarantee you one of the things he's gonna tell you is that he's proud of you. Mm. And he's never left you. And he's just, you know, like, you just make it more about yourself than it actually needs to be.

[00:36:42] So that's special, dude. 

[00:36:43] Yeah. Being able to, to sit in the pit of pain, not necessarily needing to. Jump out or to stuff, or sedate. Yeah. And that tends to be, I don't know why we're created this way, but typically on the other side of pain when we allow to feel and process is [00:37:00] the peace and purpose that we've been looking for.

[00:37:01] Well, I think that that's why, so, you know, not to make it like a whole chiropractic conversation, but why I get passionate about the people we work with is because most people, like everybody's raised in this society where they say, if you have pain. We need to fix it because it's wrong and it's something that's broken or take this.

[00:37:20] Yeah. And, but that, that's the same thing. They're like, take this, it'll make it go away. Yeah. But the problem with that thought process then is like, I always go back to, well, God had to give us a pain signal. Like he didn't make a mistake and like, oh, I forgot. I just messed that up. I couldn't believe I overlooked that.

[00:37:37] So like the pain signal's there for a reason. And if you think about like the, like if you broke your ankle, it's great that you have pain because it's gonna make you stop so that you can let it recover and heal. And so when pain shows up, most of the time, like you talked about in the beginning, is like 95% of all of it is just emotional, trapped in the system somewhere.

[00:37:58] And when we can [00:38:00] identify those and we can allow people to become aware, then. They don't have. I'm like, you don't need to go out and change your whole life. You don't need to eliminate all the stresses from your life. It's just instead of telling yourself the story because you've been fed this, I would say lie that like, oh, you're broken and there's something wrong when you have pain.

[00:38:16] It's actually an invitation. I would argue from our creator to be like, Hey, maybe we just need to stop and pay attention more so that he can work through us. Because the pain's only there to get us to stop. Mm-hmm. So as soon as we acknowledge or we can become aware, then it can complete. And I see that all the time.

[00:38:32] I text a guy today, a really good client of mine. I'm like, Hey, I know you've been having jaw pain for like three weeks, but do you just consider that jaw pain is highly associated with resentment? Does that ring true for you at all? And the response was back in the text message is like hard to tell. Yeah, but I've been overly stressed for the last couple weeks.

[00:38:51] Well, I asked him yesterday in person, he's like, I'm not that much more stressed than normal, but he like can immediately acknowledge when I throw that word resentment in there. Mm-hmm. He's like, uh, hard to tell. But [00:39:00] yeah, I think you're onto something. And I guarantee his jaw pain will go away because now he's like with it, instead of feeling like there's something wrong with me, I'm broken.

[00:39:08] And I love that you said earlier, you're like. No, none of us are alone in that. Mm. Like literally none of us. We all have pains, we all have frustration, we all have resentment, you know? Yeah. And we're doing the best we can to just pull ourselves out of it. So 

[00:39:20] it's part of the human experience. Yep. One of the metaphors we share with our clients that are early on is, is so all these different emotions, it's just like when you're driving and a dashboard light comes on.

[00:39:30] Yeah. Unfortunately, they go, oh, the car's broken. Get rid of this damn thing. And, and now they're barefoot on a freeway, as opposed to, why don't I pull out the manual and see what this means? Oh, it means tire pressure low. 

[00:39:41] Yeah. 

[00:39:41] Okay. I can still drive with that or let me pull over, fill up the tire and all that.

[00:39:46] The feedback goes away. And so by understanding that, 'cause when we feel it, it feels so heavy. Yeah. So one of the first things that we introduce clients to is becoming an observer. So once the dashboard lights up, it's just observing the feelings. And so it's something as simple as we take 'em through an [00:40:00] exercise of, okay, I'm sitting here, I'm feeling angrier, like, like your guy.

[00:40:03] I'm feeling resentful. We have them physically stand up, look down, and then ask What are you resentful over? And what it does is just this one form of disassociation allows us not to feel the guilt and the shame and the heaviness, but to still be able to identify. And now all of a sudden it's like, oh, I'm able to diagnose.

[00:40:19] I'm resentful because of this. I don't like it. It's showing up in this and this. Then we can go and sit back down and go. Ah, I feel so much lighter recognizing these aren't my emotions that have to dictate what I do. It's just simple feedback to give me some more data to decide what do I want to do. 

[00:40:35] So good.

[00:40:36] So, so good. Alright, we're gonna transition. I have at least the, maybe the last question I may ask you one more after. Yeah, 

[00:40:42] we can keep going if you got the time. 

[00:40:43] Um, my, so my one question for you that I gotta know, um, kind of left field question, but like, is there anything that you believe. That most people would probably not agree with you about?

[00:40:59] Oh, [00:41:00] sure. A lot of stuff. The first one that comes up is, and, and, and this is somewhat newer in my own work myself, but that almost all pain is self-inflicted. 

[00:41:09] Hmm. 

[00:41:10] I did not know that I was, I was one of the best victims I had ever met, and I had justifications and excuses and proof of how nothing was my fault.

[00:41:19] It was everybody else's. And every time I would argue with reality, I was the one that felt pain. Even the people who I blamed, they're like, yeah, I didn't, I didn't even know that that happened. All right. Ha. Have a good one. And left. I'm like, wait, take my pain. It's your fault. Yeah. Like, no, no, bro, you're good.

[00:41:34] You keep that pain. And it was so freeing. And so once I understood, well, if. Almost all of my pain is self-inflicted. That means I can actually do the work to start to work through, and then going from this constant state of pain to now this, this freedom, this emotional liberation. It's, it's a beautiful thing once I own it all.

[00:41:53] Because once I own something, I can then make the decision to change it. 

[00:41:56] Why do you think that is that most people, like if we are the [00:42:00] most. If we're self-inflicted, are most of it, probably all of it, to be honest with you? Like, why do you think that is? 

[00:42:07] I think 'cause it, it keeps our narrative going and it keeps us safe.

[00:42:10] Yeah. I mean, if we, if we look at back in, in the, in the old days like. If I have to accept this pain, for some reason, even at an unconscious level, it's fight or flight. It's like I'm gonna die. This pain is gonna kill me. Yep. And so if I can blame other people, then I don't view myself as a failure. That means, well, I still am lovable or I still am good enough so the tribe isn't gonna kick me out.

[00:42:33] And so when we understand that of just the reptilian part of the brain that is still kind of send, sending all the sensors, it's like, okay, hold on. Whoa. I always think of, uh, of pulp fiction where like. Be cool Honey Bunny, like she's crazy. He's like, be cool honey Bunny. It's like I've got literally like a weapon against my brain.

[00:42:49] I'm like, whoa. Be cool. It's, it's okay. Mm-hmm. We're blowing this out of proportion and when I understand that, it allows me to take accountability, which is so difficult. Yeah. Take responsibility, own it, and then be able to change [00:43:00] it. So it goes back to that part of, if it's my fault, I'm a failure. That means people won't accept me or love me, and then I don't know what to do with that.

[00:43:08] That starts questioning identity, all different things. So it's much easier to be like, I'm fine. It's your fault. Yep. It's safe. 

[00:43:14] Yeah. Dude, I, um, I did not know this and I started doing some research into like, why. Yeah, I was looking at it specifically from the perspective of like social media in general, but my question was like, how does comparison trigger stress response?

[00:43:26] Because we know, but it's like exactly what you said, the comparison is a threat to our identity and that triggers fight or flight. And then we know that the, that stress physiology wrecks literally everything. It increases the pain response. Um, I go down the list. I don't need to for this conversation necessarily, but it's so interesting how a threat to identity and then you talk about people who are, like in my world, they say, well, I'm not stressed.

[00:43:49] And I'm like, no, but you are. You just don't know that you are. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Um, I'm doing 

[00:43:55] such a great job of living in survival. Yep. I'm still okay. Yeah. As opposed to [00:44:00] what if we gave up survival and looked well, what is the next step? What does that look like? Yeah. I mean, I can actually thrive Yep.

[00:44:05] In this life and enjoy. And then one of the parts that I'm kind of. Challenging now is before it was acceptance. Now it's how do I actually enjoy the painful moments like when I'm going through the pit instead of trying to get out or just sit in it uncomfortably going, how do I learn to enjoy this?

[00:44:21] 'cause this is part of the process. Yeah. So that's kind of the next game changer where I'm like. Okay, if we could figure this out or I can actually sit in the pit and still enjoy it. This is gonna be a beautiful thing and we'll see where it goes. Well 

[00:44:32] I think, I think it's a training process. Like I was sharing a little bit of you, and this might be like more than, I don't, who knows?

[00:44:37] Heather might be mad at me for it, but this morning, um. She made a comment to me about money specifically that, and we were going back and forth a little bit before then, but she's like, I know what's gonna push your button. And it like, I want, when she said it, I wanted to get like super pissed, but I was doing dishes and I was getting ready for cocoa to be here, uh, with me and.

[00:44:57] One of the things I'm like literally washing a dish [00:45:00] and as much as I wanted to be mad, she had already went upstairs and I, it just came over me. I was like, God, thank you for showing me the place that this usually would've triggered me into like a complete downward spiral. And it literally had like no effect on me.

[00:45:13] So it was just this gratitude for the moment of like. Almost like the enemy trying to like, let's use this thing and see if it will still trigger him the way it would've even six weeks ago. Um, and I thought it was just such a cool moment of like, no, I'm not. And then like, it's been an epic day. 

[00:45:28] See, that's beautiful.

[00:45:29] 'cause life has a beautiful way at showing us where we're not free. 

[00:45:32] Yeah. 

[00:45:33] And it'll continue to come up again and again until we recognize that lesson again, it's a protective mechanism. We wanna blame the other person. Like we were talking about be before is my wife. Is is the same way. The parts of her that piss me off the most are the parts that initially attracted me to her.

[00:45:49] Yeah. So it's like, oh, this is so attractive unless it's turned on me. Stop. And it's like, wait a minute. They're both truth. How do I acknowledge both of these things? And so when I'm feeling it, it's a great [00:46:00] reminder. It's a running joke, but I'm like. Oh, honey, thank you for showing me where I'm not free and I'm still tied to this dang story of, yep, why you should live the way I think you should at all times.

[00:46:09] Wow. That okay. Even just saying that out loud. Thank you for the feedback. And then as we start getting triggered, we start doing the work, we become more free. And now it's like, how did I get triggered less in this life? Like now I'm looking for triggers. Yeah. Because it means I'm not free here, I got more work to do.

[00:46:23] Yeah. So crazy. Yeah. The, 

[00:46:25] yeah. The conversation I had this morning is like, what are you, God, what are you trying to show me? Mm. And I think that it's easy for me on the outside, especially like coaching people and working with tons of clients. Um, and when you get to that point of leadership, like for me, I can, when somebody's like, here are the problems I have, or this is where they're complaining, I'm like, yeah, it's because God is calling you to work on that and like bring you higher.

[00:46:45] We don't see it that way when we're like in the trenches of it. So it's cool. 'cause like you said, now I'm like, oh, thank you for that challenge in this area to see like, is that really broken off of him? Like he swears that it is, or are we gonna have to go do like a whole deep dive on it again, you know?

[00:46:59] [00:47:00] Yeah. Super cool. So, uh, last thing, if you could share one message with obviously people listening, but with the world, like, this is my last thing that I would share with. Everybody, anywhere, preach it from the mountaintop. What would that be for you? 

[00:47:14] One thing to share? 

[00:47:16] Yeah.

[00:47:19] Gimme a minute on that one.

[00:47:26] Just think of like, this is the most important thing that I could possibly leave people with. 

[00:47:31] Yeah. There there's so many different ones, but uh, the one that's popping up right now is. Learn how to love yourself and be okay in silence. Mm. And just like the biggest, I know the biggest battle for me was not knowing who I was and trying to wear so many masks for other people.

[00:47:52] Mm-hmm. And I do think part of it just comes with age and normal maturation, but for sure is learning how to be okay. Being you [00:48:00] and how to love that version of you. 

[00:48:02] Yep. Amen. It's amazing, bro. Alright, so tell people where they can find you. I know you shared it earlier in the episode, but Yeah. So if they wanna learn more about you, about Pacific Hor.

[00:48:11] Give resources. So, yeah. Uh, Pacific 

[00:48:13] Shores Mental Health, uh, and addiction are IG handles at Pacific Shores Recovery. Yeah, we have a website, pacific shores recovery.com. We've got a ton of resources on there. Um, we've got masterclasses. I mean, basically just go there and snoop around. Yeah. If you got any questions, 

[00:48:29] literally their content is amazing.

[00:48:31] The stuff they put out is amazing. Um, I can vouch for it. I follow you guys. So I just love everything and I know we don't know each other that well yet, but, um, it's just a beautiful thing. So Mark, dude, I appreciate you so much for taking the time to come down beyond today. Uh, let's do many, many more of them, man.

[00:48:47] Appreciate you too, man. Thank you. 

[00:48:48] You're the best, bro. Thank you. Ditto. Cool. All right, fam, peace. 

[00:48:52] Bye.